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Benjamin Kipp and Gilbert Kipp

John M. McDonald interview

From the Westchester County Historical Society catalog:
Brothers Benjamin Kipp (1763-1849) and Gilbert Kipp recall their uncles, Captain Samuel Kipp and Lieutenant James Kipp of DeLancey’s Refugees. They then describe a raid conducted by the Refugees into Bedford, during which cattle were driven south through North Castle. The Refugees were pursued, and were forced to abandon the cattle before reaching Youngs’ House in Mount Pleasant to avoid being captured. The brothers share an amusing anecdote regarding Andrew Irving, a suspected Loyalist who joined the Refugees at the outset of the raid but left when he realized that it would not succeed. Benjamin Kipp notes that he saw British Major John André as he was passing through New Castle on the morning September 23, 1780, the day of his capture. He also recounts an incident in which he was able to retrieve cattle that had been stolen from him by a force of British regulars. The Kipp brothers conclude by mentioning a few living persons whom they believe might have knowledge about the events of the Revolutionary War.

Original findings from this interview

Talman Orser called 'son of the celebrated female Tea Captain'
The clearest direct attestation in the McDonald collection of 'Tea Captain' as a period nickname — and it places the target as 'Arthur's tea at Bedford, I think, but perhaps North Castle.'
→ See 20 Original Research
Eyewitness portraits of the Loyalist Kipp uncles
Benjamin and Gilbert give a rare period character sketch of their own uncles: Captain Samuel Kipp 'tall, stout, ruddy, good looking, a bold soldier, but taciturn, stern and severe,' versus Lieutenant James Kipp 'small in stature, active, loquacious, and always boasting and spluttering.'
The Andrew Irving cow story
Andrew Irving, an Irish weaver of suspect loyalty, joined the Refugee cattle drive cheering 'King George' as it passed North Castle Church — then extracted his own cow from the drove and made his way home shouting 'Hurra for General Washington.'
Captain André's morning of capture
Benjamin Kipp says he saw André pass through New Castle on the morning of September 23, 1780 — alone, not in military dress, asking after the road to White Plains, noted as suspicious by everyone who saw him.
→ See 01 Cannon Tellers Point

Manuscript page facsimiles

High-resolution images served from the Westchester County Historical Society's IIIF endpoint. Click any page to view full size.

Transcription

Octr. 23d Benjamin and Gilbert Kipp, of New Castle: "Our uncles, Capt. Samuel and Lieut. James Kipp of DeLan=cey's cavalry were of very different persons and characters. Uncle Samuel was tall, stout, ruddy, good looking, a bold soldier, but taciturn, stern and severe; while James was small in stature, active, loquacious, and always boasting and spluttering. Uncle James was garrulous and pleasant, fond of dwelling upon his own exploits, and of foretelling the great things he intended to do, most of which were never accomplished; while Uncle Sam. habitually austere and silent, acted without promising, and never boasted of his performances. After the Revolutionary war, both went to Nova Scotia. Uncle Samuel left his wife and went off with a daughter of Captain Knapp to Canada where they lived as married folks. Both of our uncles Samuel and James as well as Captain Gilbert Totten were born in the old town of North Castle. Neither never returned to New York state. James was drowned along with one of his sons at St. Johns (Nova Scotia or New Bruns=wick ?) about fifty years ago, and Saml. died at Montreal thirty years since or thereabouts. Samuel's son, Samuel, who lives above Sing Sing in person resembles him much. After Uncle Samuel left his wife, she returned from Nova Scotia, with her only child (Samuel) and died here. Captn. Knapp, was a large brown looking man, stouter than Uncle Samuel. Lieut. Colonel Hatfield and Capt. Knapp were both from Crompond or that neighborhood.

Once during the Revolutionary war a strong party from below (Major A or who in command ?) went up to Bedford where they collected from the Whigs a large drove of cattle and sheep and passed through North Castle pursued by a large force militia. The pursuers increased every moment and attacked the Refugees on the flank as well as rear. The Refugee horse turned and charged repeatedly, when the militia would give way but immediately would resume the pursuit and attack. At length, the lower party were all but surrounded, and before they reached Youngs's were compelled to abandon the cattle in order to secure their retreat." (Quere. Is this Pritchard's affair ?) "As they passed North Castle Church (as yet unpursued) in high glee, huzzaing for King George, an Irishman named Andrew Irving (or Owen) who lived there, and who was always suspected of being inclined to the Royal cause, catching the general enthusiasm which prevailed at the moment, joined in the loyal outcry, turned his own cow into the drove and accompanied the Refugees and their friends. When these were about to leave their plunder in consequence of being so closely pressed, Andrew watched his opportunity extricated his cow from the multitude, and driving her before him, made his way home with loud cries of, "Hurra for General Washington!""

I [Benjamin] saw André pass here the day he was captured. Although not in military dress, he was supposed to be an officer, and everybody wondered to see him travelling alone so early in the morning. He enquired about the road to White Plains of several persons. One shewed the road to White Plains and that to Tarrytown. Another told him that the Americans had lately been on the White Plains road near Youngs's corner.

The British regular army in great force, once during the Revolutionary war marched from towards Pines Bridge upon White Plains, accompanied by large bands of volunteers and plunderers who drove before them all the cattle of the country they could collect. I was driving my fathers cows when I met one of these bands. The plunderers not=withstanding my remonstrances, took my cattle along with their own drove and went on. I had sagacity enough to find the Commanding Officer and make my complaint. He enquired who took them and I pointed out the men. He said to them: "Restore this boy his cattle and see him safely home with them, or depend upon it you shall receive an exemplary punishment." I returned home with all our cows.

Great numbers of cattle thieves always accompanied the British army on its march through West Chester County.

I never heard of the regular British army encamping anywhere in North Castle over night.

Captain Talman Orser of Ossining is a son of the celebrated female Tea Captain who at the head of [marg: a band of] women attempted the capture of Arthur's tea at Bedford, I think, but perhaps North Castle.

Samuel Washburn aged 84 lives in Mount Pleasant in this neighborhood. He was formerly of White Plains.

Jesse Kipp, our youngest brother has moved away from this vicinity.

Joshua Putney of Somers and old Mr. Wood of New Castle, or somewhere near Pines Bridge.